Advice Needed

We have a 72 litre tank at 24-25 degrees, with gravel, plants (just one type though, of which I don't know the name), a couple of ornaments (photo attached) and the following:

4 penguin tetras
3 silver tip tetras
2 bristlenose catfish
2 otocinclus
1 "siamese flying fox" - LFS's name!
1 yoyo loach
1 fishnet fox (Crossocheilus Reticulatus) - yes I know NOW how big they get, but he was fantastic when we had a hair algae outbreak, is great on our ornaments, rocks and plants and has a great friendship with yoyo! I'm convinced he has no idea how big he is, so friendly and gentle with the other fish

We also have one female guppy and two neon tetras who will be rehomed as I know they need to be with a lot more of their own species and I don't want to deny them that.

The plants have done really well in the tank and grown rapidly. I recently spread them out around the tank without realising the implications of this. The tetras started fighting a lot and we lost a penguin and a silver tip - I now know this was because, by spreading out the plants, I'd taken away room for them to swim. I have now put the plants around the edge of the tank - should I also be limiting the height of the plants so the fish can swim above them? Was also thinking of just keeping them in one bunch to increase the swimming space and increasing the water flow for the silver tips.

Ideally I'd like 2 or 3 more otocinclus, 2 or 3 more silver tips and 1 or 2 penguins so they school properly and stop being so territorial and aggressive (sometimes hiding on their own in the plants), but I think this will be overstocking the tank. Should I be trimming or reducing the number of plants? As you can see, I've put a few stones and bits of broken (and sanded and therefore smoothed) plant pot in there but that's temporary as I'd rather have something taller with more hiding places to accommodate the fishnet fox for example, and whoever wants to use it for playtime! The cave is the male catfish's domain but doesn't appear interested in the female sadly. I prefer the silver tips to the penguins so may remove the penguins as they will probably get too big and it seems like there are too many mid level fish already. I think neons are too small for them to be happy alongside a school of silver tips so I'm having trouble coming up with ideas on how to proceed.

So I'm open to suggestions and advice please. I want to do this properly and have a well balanced and happy tank. If I keep changing things around they'll keep getting stressed.

Thank you very much

Chris

I have never, ever heard of anyone loosing fish because they'd moved the plants...are you sure you didn't stir up a load of mulm and cause an ammonia spike? Fish don't need swimming space as you seem to think; many people have tanks that are thick with plants. The fish just swim around and through them. Allowing plants to reach the surface is a good thing; it makes the fish feel more secure.

Your problem is probably that your shoals aren't large enough. I'd decide on the species you like the best and up their numbers and rehome the others.

A nice piece of bogwood would go well and benefit the BNs.

I should warn you that the flying fox, the yoyo loach (which should also be kept in shoals) and the Crossocheilus all grow far too big for your tank, you should think about re-homing those too, before they become stunted and start to suffer.

i think you are overstocked, why dont you put your whereabout in you profile, maybe someone local to you can help you out, what sort of algae eater is that, Flying fox? because they get nasty too if kept on their own

I have some further info i cant post here on s.a.e if you email me i will send it to you,

email, [email protected] di

Thank you very much for the replies. I didn't mean to suggest the act of moving the plants killed them, more disrupted the dynamics of the tank so there was less free space to swim/school in, making them more territorial against each other, rather than them wanting to school together. I don't think there was an ammonia spike - I moved the plants when I did a water change/hoovering the gravel/cleaning the filter. The next morning I checked the levels and they were all good.

Re the foxes and loach, this was not told to be by my LFS. In fact the yoyo loach started off in our previous tank, a 20L !!! We had 2 yoyo loaches in there, the largest one was found dead on the floor, he'd somehow managed to wriggle out of the very small hole at the back where the wires come out. I couldn't believe he'd managed to fit through. I read recently that my Crossocheilus will get too big for the tank, but I didn't know that about yoyo and my SFF. We've had yoyo the longest, 18 months now, and I've grown very attached to him and my Crossocheilus - I'd rather get a bigger tank for them than part with them I WILL have to rehome my SFF though - they should live in numbers too. We originally bought 3 - LFS said this is the minimum there should be in a tank, and they said a 72L would be fine! (This was a long time ago, before our tank had the numbers it does now) They were brilliant with the BBA and general algae but we lost 2 sadly, a few months ago. This last one is still peaceful and gentle but it probably shouldn't live alone.

I will get some bogwood next week, maybe tomorrow if I can, I'll have a look in the shop, though does it need to be treated? Or am I confusing that with driftwood. I'll be re-homing the penguin tetras too so I can gradually increase the number of silver tips, but keeping the total number down.

Chris

People being given bad/misleading advice from their LFS is one of the most common causes of problems we see on here

Bogwood just needs soaking in some hot water (pour boiling water over it and leave it overnight) and then it's fine to add to the tank.

Best of luck with your plans and upgrading for your loach; please don't hesitate to post back if you need more advice; we're all here to help