Changed Sustrate, Now Adding Co2 - Lights Next

Right so as title says, we have changed from large gravel to JBL Aquabasis plus topped with roman black, a week later (this weekend) we have set up our pressurized CO2 - set at 1 buuble/second, i am now waiting for my new LED lights to be delivered.

I bought 10 potted plants a few weeks ago that are in the main now looking rather ropey, i unfortunately dont know any of the names as i bought a "mixed" box. There are 2 broad leaf plants that now have gone yellow and the leaves look like lace, i am hoping my lights will turn up this week but there is apparently a delay so may be longer. Should i remove these plants or hang in there?

My tank is a 21" cube and i currently only have 2 x t 8'S at 15w each so i am assuming its a light issue. People talk about leaf melt - i gather its something to do with CO2 but im not sure can anyone offer any help. To be honest i cant think this is my problem because the plants looked naff before the CO2 started going in.

I stopped adding my Floursh excel when i got my plants as i know 2 of them were vallis and one looked like a short grassy vallis type thing. Do you think its just a lighting issue?

TIA

Rather a vague post

I assume the tank is 33USG? 2 x 15W T8 should be reasonably OK. Not huge light but should be OK. Bit of an investment on LED lighting if you're not sure What LED lighting have you bought? I would think that once CO2 was in, balanced and give a few weeks the light would cease to be an issue as CO2 availability would make it easier for the plants to glean the lower light!!!

Are the plants planted in the substrate?

What ferts are you dosing?
What Filtration?
Any other info you can give.

Pictures of the plants for us to ID

Photo of the underside of the hood with the T8s in would be cool too.

AC

We have bought the Aquaray twin. (Natural daylight)

Are the plants planted in the substrate? - Yes they are

What ferts are you dosing? Leaf zone - was using excel too but stopped becasue of the grass type plants
What Filtration? - exteranl filtration i cant remember the specifics of it, we used to have it on our marine tank some years ago, im guessing in all honesty its too big for the tank we currently have.

Pictures of the plants for us to ID

Photo of the underside of the hood with the T8s in would be cool too.

The picture of the hood shows one of the T8's the other one is in the same position on other half of hood with reflector.

Im not sure where all my pictures went:


Next one:

I would guess that leaf zone is missing N and P. most of them are. If you have just started adding CO2 then they need more ferts to go with it. You were probably getting enough N and P from fish, food and waste before to go with the low light supplied and the natural CO2 available. With more CO2 these will quickly be depleted. With more light they will be even more quickly depleted.

What Filtration? - exteranl filtration i cant remember the specifics of it, we used to have it on our marine tank some years ago, im guessing in all honesty its too big for the tank we currently have.

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I doubt it. Most people think they are over yet are way under what most of us planted folks use If it is less than 1200lph for your sized tank then you could do with more or added circulation from pumps. If it is more then no probs.

I use 2200lph on my 33USG!!!

The Aquarays are way overpriced IMO. I won't knock them though as George Farmer says they work fine over his tank


Summary -
I think your plants are becoming 'lace/glasslike' is because they are defficient of N and P due partly to the CO2 being added. I doubt there was sufficient before but now it is vastly defficient. Good CO2 speeds things up massively even under low light.

Solution -
Add N and P to the tank. Either using dry ferts and a method such as EI or PMDD+PO4 or by ditching the leaf zone and using an off the shelf fert like Tropica Plant Nutrition+.

DO NOT add the lights on until you have things sorted. You will quickly be struggling with algae and this is the point many give the hobby up out of frustration.

Get the ferts added, Learn the CO2, then decide on the lights. Looks plenty bright enough to me already from your pics but if you want the LEDS then wait until you have this problem sorted.

AC

Thanks for your reply, we thought we ought to upgrade the lights as nothing has been growing in the tank, the plants generally have been staying alive but gradually dying off, they typically have roots but not much leaf so we thought this was because the plants weren't photosynthesising enough to grow. Perhaps if i give you my last set of water test results:

Before changing substarate and adding CO2:
GH 80
KH 70
PH 7.6
NO3 5-10
NO2 0
PO4 0.1-0.25

After emptying tank replacing sub then one week later adding CO2:
GH100
KH 80
PH 7.2
NO3 10
NO2 0
PO4 - 1

I always thought leaf zone was a good all rounder - should i really ditch it altogether or run it alongside the TPN+?

Thanks again for taking the time to help me.

I wouldn't take too much notice of test results I don't test at all. hobby kits aren't really accurate enough to get any really true readings from.

Leaf Zone is most likely (not sure) without N and P. Most off the shelf (OTS) ones are free of N and P because people who tend to buy off the shelf ones are often believers in 'excess N and P cause algae' and also 'high nitrates are toxic to fish' therefore they play along with the myths to get sales.

As I call it a myth you can get where I am coming from. we tend to use dry powders and add N and P with no worries. the kind of N figures most give out as dangerously toxic wouldn't harm shrimp!!!

TPN+ on its own will be fine. It is an all rounder. Most OTS will be potassium plus trace elements.

AC

SuperColey1 said:

I wouldn't take too much notice of test results I don't test at all. hobby kits aren't really accurate enough to get any really true readings from.

Leaf Zone is most likely (not sure) without N and P. Most off the shelf (OTS) ones are free of N and P because people who tend to buy off the shelf ones are often believers in 'excess N and P cause algae' and also 'high nitrates are toxic to fish' therefore they play along with the myths to get sales.

As I call it a myth you can get where I am coming from. we tend to use dry powders and add N and P with no worries. the kind of N figures most give out as dangerously toxic wouldn't harm shrimp!!!

TPN+ on its own will be fine. It is an all rounder. Most OTS will be potassium plus trace elements.

AC

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Yeah, Leafzone, no N and P. I checked the other day when I was at PetsMart. I wish they had TPN and TPN+ in my neck of the woods, though, I've seen in only in a few websites in the US. Seachem will also sell N, P, and Ph in separate bottles, in addition to iron and trace, but I don't recommend it for larger tanks. For the wee ones, it's kind of nice as there is no mixing involved. I am so lazy, I don't even mix my own ferts. I'm hopeless.

We are a week or so further on now and plants look like they are picking up - still a way to go but we are fairly sure there is improvement. We have been adding the TPN+ and i have left the lighting as it was with just the 2 x t8's (15w).

I have been looking around at getting some ground cover but dont really know what to go for i like the look of HC but wonder if my lights are strong enough as a lot of the literature i was reading earlier suggested it required med-high light.

I guess most carpet type plants need a decent amount of light so should i upgrade lighting or is there a possibility the carpet will grow under my lights?

I was looking to buy the Aquabeam natural daylight plus duo (LED) as i have an irregular shape tank (21"cube)i figured it was the best solution as the T5 compacts are getting harder to get hold of.

My ph is staying at 7.2 with the co2 at about 1bps all other parameters have stayed the same since adding the CO2, do i need to wait before adding more plants or am i ok to get stuck in?