Creamcicle Molly With White Puffy Spot On Head! Plz Help :(

So i've had 2 mollies now that have had this problem: white spot, almost like my fish iis butting its head on something but typically end up dead after a week or so. So my last molly i had since it was a baby had 5 babies. a day later the white spot on the head, and then the next day dead. now, this female creamcicle molly ive had in the tank for a while now has the white spot as well. Shes had it for 2 days now and its starting to get puffy, ive tried reading topics on it already but most of the time they end up dying before anyone can really diagnos it. please help! picture attached

sorry pic is blurry and note that the body isnt white spotted like the photo shows, and ive added Copper Safe to the tank for ich and velvet etc...

please help! thanks!
Scott in AZ

edit: heres a clearer pic:

Let's start with the basics. Mollies need hard (15+ degrees dH), basic (pH 7.5-8) water with zero ammonia and nitrite, and nitrate levels less than 20 mg/l. They need warmth, more than most other tropical fish, around 28 C being ideal. They also do MUCH better in brackish water than fresh; adding a teaspoon of tonic salt per gallon isn't brackish water, but rather 6-9 grammes of marine salt mix per litre is what you want. Do all these things, and your Mollies should stay healthy without much bother. Don't do these things and you'll be CONSTANTLY fighting battles with ill-health.

Mollies are not a good idea for beginners. Mollies are not suitable for mixed-species community tanks. You cannot expect to keep Mollies in small tanks either. You need a tank around 115 litres (30 US gallons) to have any chance of keeping the sailfin varieties healthy, and frankly I wouldn't recommend substantially smaller tanks for the smaller shortfin Mollies. Filtration should be robust, with a good rate of turnover (6 times the volume of the tank per hour is ideal) and their diet should be primarily vegetable-based (e.g., livebearer flake, Spirulina flake, algae wafers).

Don't randomly add medications until you know what the problem is. All medications -- repeat, all medications -- are poisons. If you mindlessly add anything to hand, you have a good chance of poisoning your fish. So first check environmental conditions (see above); second, diagnose the problem; and third, try and fix/cure whatever the problem might be.

Nine times out of ten, Mollies get sick because the fishkeeper insists on keeping them in a small freshwater aquarium despite what all the books (and people like me) tell them. Under such dismal conditions Mollies come down with the Unholy Trinity of Finrot, Fungus and a nervous disorder called The Shimmies. A combination Finrot/Fungus medication* (e.g., eSHa 2000, Seachem Paraguard) will cure Finrot and Fungus without you needing to be able to tell them apart, while The Shimmies typically go away by themselves when the Molly is moved to better conditions.

Cheers, Neale

*Obviously, follow the instructions; among other things, remove carbon from the filter; it removes medications from the water, which will, as you'd expect, prevent the cure.

Size of tank in gallons or litries.
How many fish and which type.
Water stats in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph.

How big are the spots.
Any redness to the spots.
Any signs of flicking and rubbing, darting, erratic swimming, laboured breathing.

Wilder said:

Size of tank in gallons or litries.
How many fish and which type.
Water stats in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph.

How big are the spots.
Any redness to the spots.
Any signs of flicking and rubbing, darting, erratic swimming, laboured breathing.

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20 gallon tank(tall)
5 baby mollies
1 algae eater
1 albino cory catfish
1 green cory catfish (emerald or w.e)
1 male dalmation molly
2 male guppies
1 frog
and
5 red platies(raised from babies)

i know this is prolly alot but they keep having babies and i dont know where to get rid of em(but i like em so i really dont wanna get rid of em)

dont know water levels gotta test it later

no red spots, but the white spot is peeling(is wat it looks like) and shes not eating and is staying close to the bottom, she was quite an agressive fish when i first got her, she always chased the other molly that died after having the 5 new babies, so i got a male thinking it would help and it did, she stopped chasing the other female, but now shes chasing the male every now and again.

i know i should have a 30 gallon, but i recently lost my job so i wont have a chance to get one any time soon.

ill update u on the levels of the ph and shiiiz when i get back

Need water stats.

If no sign of Any signs of flicking and rubbing, darting, erratic swimming, laboured breathing. I would add a bacterial med with the skin peeling.

Wilder said:

Need water stats.

If no sign of Any signs of flicking and rubbing, darting, erratic swimming, laboured breathing. I would add a bacterial med with the skin peeling.

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water is: ammonia 0 ph 6.5 temp 80ish

she ate last night and seems to be much better this morning, the peeling stopped and now its just a white smooth (for the most part) spot on her head, ill try to get better pictures now that she is more active. breating doesnt look laboured to me, although she takes longer to breath then the other fish, but she is about twice the size or 3 times the size of most the other fish so i dont know if its laboured or not lol.

no scratching, some erradic swimming, but shes always been bossy so its almost normal, no rubbing, shes been staying closer to the bottom tho, doing some fair amount of swimminh at the moment tho.... she looks healthy but i just want to make sure that this is sometihng i can prevent in the future since ive had it happen 2-3 times before

thanks again guys and since u guys help so much i think ill make this my new home forum thanks again!

Your fish has classic "unhappy Molly syndrome".

Your water is likely too soft and is certainly too acidic; as stated earlier, you need hard, basic water, preferably with some marine salt added.

Cure: buy some marine salt mix. Make up a jug with about 6 grammes* of marine salt mix per litre of water in the tank. Add this to the aquarium. Marine salt mix will both harden the water and raise the pH; note that tonic salt, kosher salt, aquarium salt, cooking sea salt, etc. will not work!!! Has to be the stuff you use in a marine aquarium.

If the fish doesn't pep up within a day or so, the chances are your fish has more than simple excess mucous production. Assume it's an opportunistic bacterial infection (Aeromonas, Pseudomonas, etc.) and treat accordingly. In the UK I'd recommend eSHa 2000, in the US something like Maracyn or Seachem Paraguard.

Don't waste your time with anything containing tea-tree oil (Melafix, etc.).

Do what I tell you, and your molly will get better, assuming it isn't too far gone. Don't do what I do and it will die.

Cheers, Neale

*If this doesn't raise the pH to 7.5 or more, use 9 grammes per litre.

nmonks said:

Your fish has classic "unhappy Molly syndrome".

Your water is likely too soft and is certainly too acidic; as stated earlier, you need hard, basic water, preferably with some marine salt added.

Cure: buy some marine salt mix. Make up a jug with about 6 grammes* of marine salt mix per litre of water in the tank. Add this to the aquarium. Marine salt mix will both harden the water and raise the pH; note that tonic salt, kosher salt, aquarium salt, cooking sea salt, etc. will not work!!! Has to be the stuff you use in a marine aquarium.

If the fish doesn't pep up within a day or so, the chances are your fish has more than simple excess mucous production. Assume it's an opportunistic bacterial infection (Aeromonas, Pseudomonas, etc.) and treat accordingly. In the UK I'd recommend eSHa 2000, in the US something like Maracyn or Seachem Paraguard.

Don't waste your time with anything containing tea-tree oil (Melafix, etc.).

Do what I tell you, and your molly will get better, assuming it isn't too far gone. Don't do what I do and it will die.

Cheers, Neale

*If this doesn't raise the pH to 7.5 or more, use 9 grammes per litre.

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Thanks Neale, i have some: DOC WELLFISH'S AQURIUM SALT FOR FRESHWATER FISH.... will that work? it was given to me for free with the tank.also will hardening the water and what not harm any of the other fish in my tank? note all the fish in my tank are in my 2nd post above.and lastly, ive heard of Metafix... u say dont waste my time, friend from petsmart swears by it.... hes a stoner tho so i doubt id believe him! haha thanks again!

edit: u wouldnt happen to know how much that would be in US gallons? i have a 20 gallon tank

swaddell13 said:

i have some: DOC WELLFISH'S AQURIUM SALT FOR FRESHWATER FISH.... will that work?

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No. Sodium chloride by itself has zero impact on pH and hardness, as you probably learned at school. The Doc Wellfish salt you have here is used for therapeutic reasons, e.g., to treat Ick, and not for creating hard or brackish water. Trust me on this; I wrote the book about brackish water fishes!

swaddell13 said:

what not harm any of the other fish in my tank? note all the fish in my tank are in my 2nd post above.

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Hence why you shouldn't keep Mollies with other types of fish. The guppies (to 9 g/l) and the platies (to 6 g/l) will be fine with the salt; the other fish will not. I really can't stress to strongly this fact: livebearer generally, and mollies especially, cannot be kept in soft, acidic water, and any attempts to do so will be doomed to failure. If you pick up a fish book, you'll see it lists water chemistry requirements. Virtually all books will tell you mollies prefer slightly brackish water. This is why you read about a fish before you buy it. I don't want to sound hectoring, but this really is a big deal, and most problems with sick mollies can be avoided by keeping the darn things in the right water conditions. THEY ARE NOT COMMUNITY FISH.

swaddell13 said:

and lastly, ive heard of Metafix... u say dont waste my time, friend from petsmart swears by it....

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Melafix is very unreliable, to the degree it's not worth using. Over at WWM you wouldn't believe how many fish we deal with that have been treated -- without result -- with Melafix.

swaddell13 said:

edit: u wouldnt happen to know how much that would be in US gallons? i have a 20 gallon tank

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75 litres.

Cheers, Neale

I would just read this to see what you think.
http/www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/d...columnaris.html

Wilder, while Columnaris isn't an improbable guess for the pathogen -- and it's all guesswork without a microbiology lab -- the fact is this molly is in soft water at pH 6.5. That's the problem. This molly will keep getting sick without the right water chemistry, even if you cure the bacterial infection (and as I said earlier, things like eSHa 2000 should handle finrot, Columnaris and fungus equally well).

So let's not muddy the water here over arguments about what the pathogen might be! The issue is water chemistry.

Cheers, Neale

Wilder said:

I would just read this to see what you think.
[URL="http/www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/d...columnaris.html"]http/www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/d...columnaris.html[/URL]

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Wilder, while Columnaris isn't an improbable guess for the pathogen -- and it's all guesswork without a microbiology lab -- the fact is this molly is in soft water at pH 6.5. That's the problem. This molly will keep getting sick without the right water chemistry, even if you cure the bacterial infection (and as I said earlier, things like eSHa 2000 should handle finrot, Columnaris and fungus equally well).

So let's not muddy the water here over arguments about what the pathogen might be! The issue is water chemistry.

Cheers, Neale


I agree.
Just posting a link to what the white spot on the head could be.
Mollies do better in brackish water I agree.

Cool. Didn't mean to be snappy! Just want to make sure the less experienced hobbyists focus on the key things (while us old hands can argue over the subtleties!).

Cheers, Neale

Wilder said:

I agree.
Just posting a link to what the white spot on the head could be.
Mollies do better in brackish water I agree.

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okay so ill get some marine salt later... and sorry i didnt research this more i feel stupid for listening to the people at Petsmart(local petstore in the us) they just know community fish - agreesive fish(chiclids) and goldfish. thats it just 3 catagories for them, if they fall in any of those 3 they are compatable according to them, with any fish of the same class.

anyways.... so raising the ph level making it brackish and what not, will this kill my catfishes, frog and algae eater? also i have 6 baby mollies (not 5 like i thought) they seem healthy but do u think this many fish in my tank is too much? and if so how do i get rid of them, i really dont know anyone with a tank that doesnt have aggresive fish... also im strapped for cash(lost my job recently) so until unemployment money comes in i doubt i can get an antibiotics so ill try and buy the salt and hope for the best.

thanks neale, and i wasnt questioning ur knowledge, i actually looked u up, ur website and tools are very helpful and u have quite an amazing resume - books and teaching and what not. thanks for ur interest in my problem and i hope this helps my molly...

thanks again to both u guys!

swaddell13 said:

anyways.... so raising the ph level making it brackish and what not, will this kill my catfishes, frog and algae eater?

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Yes.

You could try raising just the pH and carbonate hardness. If you look here you'll find a recipe for making hard, rather than brackish, water. It's cheap to make and very cheap to use. For a mixed community tank, try half the dose recommended (i.e., use the recipe per 10 gallons not 5). In the short term, you can replace the marine salt mix with the Doc Wellfish salt you have, but when the box is done, buy some Instant Ocean or whatever instead.

What this mix will do is raise pH, general hardness, and carbonate hardness without raising salinity. All your other livestock should be fine if you make the change in stages. Replace water across 24 hours, maybe 25% at a time. Although salt is in the recipe -- this isn't making the water brackish! So don't worry about that.

The thing is that while mollies usually do well in brackish water, they only sometimes do well in plain hard water. A lot depends on the water quality; they are intolerant of nitrate as well as ammonia and nitrite. So good clean water is important if you aren't going to keep them in brackish conditions. I would always recommend keeping mollies in brackish, but if you're stuck with a bunch of fish that don't like salt, then gambling on a hard water system might be worth doing.

swaddell13 said:

also im strapped for cash(lost my job recently) so until unemployment money comes in i doubt i can get an antibiotics so ill try and buy the salt and hope for the best.

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Sorry to hear this. Improving the water chemistry will make all your livebearers happier. Whether it cures the sick molly is difficult to say, but this will be part of the cure. If the fish doesn't heal, you will need a suitable finrot/Columnaris medication. Dipping the molly in seawater* for 2-20 minutes per day can help clean up mucous, but by itself won't usually fix bacterial infections.

Cheers, Neale

*A small container with 35 grammes salt added to a litre of aquarium water.