Yellow Koi - Loss Of Appetite

Hello,

I am a new member of this forum, and I decided to register so that I can attempt to acquire some advice regarding a health problem with my koi that is really concerning me.

Here is the issue I am facing

I currently own a pond that holds 1398 litres and is home to 16 fish of various sizes and species (Koi, Orfe, Goldfish, Wild tench etc). Recently my yellow Koi which is around 30 centimeters in length started to seemingly grow white circular spots on the body just above the anal fin; they are not cotton-like and do not resemble grains of salt which is often associated with 'white spot'. Initially when they appeared, the fish was still eating very well but over a period of up to 2 weeks it has completely lost it's appetite. In addition to this, it is: rubbing itself against hard objects, is mainly lethargic (although it will occasionally swim but towards the base of the pond) and sometimes it can be seen yawning which I'm told occurs when the fish is trying to remove solids from it's gills, and it now has no interest in consuming food.

Here are numerous photos I have taken to backup what I have stated:





All other fish within the pond are eating well and behavioural changes have not occurred, one exception to this is that they occasionally rub themselves to relieve irritation?. Though, my other koi which is around 40cm in length has a white spot near it's nostrils that is quite similar to the spots found on my 30cm yellow koi.

Action I have taken

I have placed Blagdon's anti-parasitic treatment into my pond to kill possible parasites which are causing various fish to rub against hard objects. I have avoided using any anti-fungus treatments because the white spots appear to resemble 'koi pox' which are not supposed to be treated with any remedies, and they do not appear to be expanding or worsening.

In addition, I have placed some tonic salt within the pond to act as a PH buffer to prevent one source of stress and I have carried out a full test of the water (nitrite, nitrate, ammonia and PH) which indicated the water quality is brilliant.

Is there anything else I should do? Will the Blagdon treatment work effectively or be another source of stress for the ill koi? Should I be looking at treating an internal parasite, which I presume, is more likely to cause loss of appetite?

I would personally stop treatment of the parasite stuff. Also i would never treat a pond with salt. If i had to i would treat individual fish.

Can hardly see the pictures of the fish so hard to tell. If they are Carp pox then there's nothing to worry about. however you said about it not wanting to eat and rubbing. this is a sign to me of a type of parasite like you suggested.

There are many types of parasite as well as internal and external. You need to have a scrape done and look at it though a microscope to be sure of which parasite it is. Different parasites need different treatment and i doubt the blagdon stuff would work.

What filtration are you using?
What test kit?
How long has the pond been set up for.
The pond sounds to small to me which will have a bad effect as the parasite will spread quicker in such a small water volume with the amount of fish

chris

chr15_8 said:

I would personally stop treatment of the parasite stuff. Also i would never treat a pond with salt. If i had to i would treat individual fish.

Can hardly see the pictures of the fish so hard to tell. If they are Carp pox then there's nothing to worry about. however you said about it not wanting to eat and rubbing. this is a sign to me of a type of parasite like you suggested.

There are many types of parasite as well as internal and external. You need to have a scrape done and look at it though a microscope to be sure of which parasite it is. Different parasites need different treatment and i doubt the blagdon stuff would work.

What filtration are you using?
What test kit?
How long has the pond been set up for.
The pond sounds to small to me which will have a bad effect as the parasite will spread quicker in such a small water volume with the amount of fish

chris

Click to expand...

Hello,

I am using a 'Blagdon minipond filter 4500/6000' (5 stage filter), 'Interpet Pond Master Test' is the name of the testing kit. The pond has been set up for 8 months.

The white circular spots do they move.
Do the gills look pale with excess mucas or red and inflamed.
Any redness to the spots.
What are your water stats in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph.

Not eating can be stress, desease, bacterial, internal parasites, meds, parasites.

Wilder said:

The white circular spots do they move.
Do the gills look pale with excess mucas or red and inflamed.
Any redness to the spots.
What are your water stats in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph.

Not eating can be stress, desease, bacterial, internal parasites, meds, parasites.

Click to expand...

They do not move at all; they look exactly like human acne. There is no paleness, mucas or inflamation anywhere and the spots are entirely white with no redness. According to the 'interpet pond master kit' the stats suggest that those 4 properties of the water are absolutely perfect, and there is adequate filtration to aid with this (isn't blocked etc).

The yellow koi should not be stressed, he is relatively tame and will usually consume pellets near my hands. In terms of medication, I have been treating the pond (in accordance with dosage instructions) with Blagdon anti-parasite product to try to eradicate what seems like 'skin flukes' that is occurring with some of the koi.

I have had no luck with relieving the irritation that I *think* the skin flukes is causing and I am very worried about the yellow koi who has loss of appetite given that the anti-parasitic remedy doesn't seem so effective.

That why I asked in the gills look pale with excess mucas or red inflamed as that can be gill flukes.
Sometimes fish will yawn alot of gill irratation.
Signs of skin and gill flukes are.

Red inflamed gills, or pale gills with excess mucas.
Opaque body with excess slime.
Flicking and rubbing.
Darting or erratic swimming.
Swimming in a jerky movement.
Weighloss sometimes.
Sores on the body of the fish.
Spitting food out.
Laboured breathing or gasping at surface of pond.

Spots.
Spots that are a greyish white with a circling of red can be columnaris spots.
Spots that are smooth, look like a cauliflower or a cluster of berries can be lymthocystis.
Spots that look waxy can be fish pox.

This is a pic of lymthocystis.

Wilder said:

That why I asked in the gills look pale with excess mucas or red inflamed as that can be gill flukes.
Sometimes fish will yawn alot of gill irratation.
Signs of skin and gill flukes are.

Red inflamed gills, or pale gills with excess mucas.
Opaque body with excess slime.
Flicking and rubbing.
Darting or erratic swimming.
Swimming in a jerky movement.
Weighloss sometimes.
Sores on the body of the fish.
Spitting food out.
Laboured breathing or gasping at surface of pond.

Spots.
Spots that are a greyish white with a circling of red can be columnaris spots.
Spots that are smooth, look like a cauliflower or a cluster of berries can be lymthocystis.
Spots that look waxy can be fish pox.

This is a pic of lymthocystis.

Click to expand...

Flicking/rubbing and only occasionally, the yellow koi will swim erratically. On the first day that he had a loss of appetite he was eating the pellets but immediately spitting them out; now he never comes to the surface and won't eat anything.

The white spots are waxy looking (pure white and circular), but are not clustered.

What would you suggest I do to help bring the appetite back? Are there any medications out there that will cure these specific symptoms? As I have said, I am using a general anti-parasitic medicine but a forum user has criticized its effectiveness.

I will attempt to get a better picture of the fish ASAP, though it will be very hard to do so as he will not come near the surface.

Flicking and rubbing can be bad water quality, irratation to something in the water, parasites.
Erratic swimming can be stray voltage, toxins, over dose of med, parasites, swim bladder, ph shock, the fish is dying.
Spitting food out can be the food is to big, don't like the food and bored of it, parasites, internal parasites, bacterial.


To stimulate appetite soak there pellets in garlic juice.



If fish have flukes they tend to sometimes swim oddly and swim in a jerky manor.

Usually with flukes you have to retreat to kill the young as they hatch. Also flukes cause bacterial infections as in there hooks or suckers they carry a nasty bacteria which enter the blood stream when the parasite pierces the skin.

Can you post some more pics but make sure they are clear and can see the spots on the fish.

Skin Flukes



Symptoms:

Skin flukes will cause your fish to present with a grayish discoloration of the skin and red, inflamed patches. Fin deterioration or fraying may also be present. Infected fish are often seen scraping against objects in the aquarium.



Cause:

Monogenetic Fluke of the genus Gyrodactylus. These flukes are too small to be seen with the naked eye, ranging in size from 0.05 – 3.0 mm in length. They adhere to the fish’s skin with hooks or suckers and feed on the fish’s flesh. These flukes have a very short life cycle, reproducing roughly every 24 hours. Newly born flukes must find a fish host within the first 24 hours in order to survive. In contrast, adult flukes can survive up to ten days without a host.



Treatment:

Skin Fluke infestations are highly infectious. All fish as well as the aquarium they inhabit should be treated. Effective medications include Clout, Fluke-Tabs, Quick Cure, Formalin, Paragon, Trifon, Parasite Guard, and Potassium Permanganate.

Wilder said:

Flicking and rubbing can be bad water quality, irratation to something in the water, parasites.
Erratic swimming can be stray voltage, toxins, over dose of med, parasites, swim bladder, ph shock, the fish is dying.
Spitting food out can be the food is to big, don't like the food and bored of it, parasites, internal parasites, bacterial.


To stimulate appetite soak there pellets in garlic juice.



If fish have flukes they tend to sometimes swim oddly and swim in a jerky manor.

Usually with flukes you have to retreat to kill the young as they hatch. Also flukes cause bacterial infections as in there hooks or suckers they carry a nasty bacteria which enter the blood stream when the parasite pierces the skin.

Can you post some more pics but make sure they are clear and can see the spots on the fish.

Click to expand...

I have witnessed him swimmingly oddly in that the caudal fin is actively moving, but he may opt to clamp the pectoral fins. This occurred 2 days ago, but he is no longer doing this. I am treating for flukes; according to the guidelines for the anti-parasitic product, I am to retreat every 7 days; if there is a lot of rain (causing diluting of the medicine) I usually treat in the evening of the 6th day from the first treatment. Hopefully this method of treatment will catch the flukes in the free-swim stage.

I will try my best to get more clearer pictures tomorrow.

Thank you very much for the advice.

Wilder said:

Skin Flukes



Symptoms:

Skin flukes will cause your fish to present with a grayish discoloration of the skin and red, inflamed patches. Fin deterioration or fraying may also be present. Infected fish are often seen scraping against objects in the aquarium.



Cause:

Monogenetic Fluke of the genus Gyrodactylus. These flukes are too small to be seen with the naked eye, ranging in size from 0.05 – 3.0 mm in length. They adhere to the fish’s skin with hooks or suckers and feed on the fish’s flesh. These flukes have a very short life cycle, reproducing roughly every 24 hours. Newly born flukes must find a fish host within the first 24 hours in order to survive. In contrast, adult flukes can survive up to ten days without a host.



Treatment:

Skin Fluke infestations are highly infectious. All fish as well as the aquarium they inhabit should be treated. Effective medications include Clout, Fluke-Tabs, Quick Cure, Formalin, Paragon, Trifon, Parasite Guard, and Potassium Permanganate.

Click to expand...

From your experience, which treatment product should I use out of the one's mentioned? Should I completely disregard my current course of treatment (Blagdon anti-parasite)?

In my opinion, I was thinking of using 'quick-cure' parasite treatment in the water, and, somehow getting the koi to consume Jungle Labs Anti Parasite Medicated Food' to tackle any internal parasites. Given that the fish will not consume anything, how do you suggest I use the internal parasite remedy? Should I transfer the fish to a hospital tank and physically place the medicine food into it's mouth?

Are you sure your fish have flukes as there not showing the symtoms.
What your locations as there meds are american that are listed in the article on skin flukes.

Hi,

Since my last post I have removed a goldfish from the pond and took it to a local aquatic centre to conduct a swab-test. Results showed that it had a skin fluke and thus all other 15 fish within the pond are likely to have it and need treatment. They issued me with a treatment named 'Sterazin P' which kills flukes and internal worms (contains: malachite green). I am on the 4th/10th day of the treatment course and the koi has started consuming high protein goldfish flakes and very small medikoi pellets. The appetite is improving but he isn't back to normal in the sense that he won't consume large pellets, supplementary foods (sweet corn) etc.

The treatment required me to turn off the UV lamp, which is used to prevent green water, which means the water is extremely green. My understanding is that more carbon dioxide will be being generated by the algae during the night and it may cause PH changes. Are there any other repercussions of turning the UV light off?

Lastly, I have 2 ghost carp within the pond and they have lost their appetite to some degree. The aquatic centre I received treatment from say that the 23-24 degree centigrade heat is the cause of this. I have made a small shelter for them and they were the first to take shelter. Is there anything else I should consider doing?

hi
did they also tell you to remove any carbon media from your filter , also did they mention you need extra air when treating or medicating

Hi Saph,

No they didn't mention that. How crucial is it to remove the carbon media? This component wasn't removed yet the medication seems to have took effect.