To Euthanize Or Not?

Hi. I had a question and found this forum. It looks like the kind of placed I'm likely to get good advice.

Just a quick background. I helped someone decommission their tropical tank for a house renovation. Long story short I ended up taking home about a dozen red platy fry. It took a good day to find them all in the 55 gal tank that I took them out of. I didn't want to let the little guys just die off after the larger fish had been taken to a fish store. So now I've been raising these fish in a "corner 5" fish tank. The plan was to get them large enough to donate to a fish store. So, we've gone through a lot of trouble to keep these guys alive.

All of the fish are doing well except for one. Water parameters are fine, and I change a small percentage of the water frequently. So I have 11 healthy guys, and one that has something wrong with it. I don't know if it is genetic or due to an injury, but the one fish doesn't seem to have much swim bladder control -- almost like he doesn't even have one. He sinks like a rock and sits around like a mud skipper. When feeding time comes, he is able to force himself to the top, only to float down as he tries to down the food. He's growing more slowly, if at all, compared to the other fish.

My experience is that it will eventually die of starvation if not from the deformity or injury , and my thought was to euthanize him. My wife has other thoughts and felt that the fish might be able to "grow out of" his problem. So, not to start a domestic disturbance incident, I thought it best to come and ask experts what their opinion is. My wife cherishes all life, no matter how small, and she doesn't want this little fry to be "put down" if not absolutely necessary.

I've attached a pic. The fish curled up at the bottom is the one that has the problem. It isn't always balled up like that. It's just the best pic I could get for now. Overall the fish is very thin, without the round belly that the others have.

Sorry for the long post. Any suggestions?

Thanks!
bushka

I have found that with culls, which this fish would be considered, that even if you put them in a separate tank, and try to cater to their special needs they end up dying prematurely. I, as well as just about anyone else I know who breeds fish has tried saving them all at first, rarely does it work.

What you probably have is a swim bladder problem caused by a genetic defect. This is an internal problem, with no cure. Constantly sitting on the bottom, when not designed to do this as some fish are will make the fish prone to abdominal abrasions, an open path for infection.

Understand the fish could be like this for life, and there may be other internal defects that are not obvious that will shorten its life. The best bet for a longer life is a separate tank, no substrate, and wiping the glass bottom a few times weekly with a paper towel. The wiping will help keep bacteria down, the smooth bottom is less abrasive.

Your wife sounds like my wife, she calls culling "Playing God". I figure that fish in a glass box is not natural, and the ones with defects would be the first to be picked off by predators in a natural environment.

I find culling to be the most difficult part of breeding.

Im assuming we are looking at the orange 'curve' at the bottom?

If it is, it is more that like a genetical mutation, it may lead a happy, healthy life, but it may not. Equally it could die from it. It is quite common to see bent spines in guppies, and 99% of the time it is due to inbreeding.

D.

[And welcome to TFF!]

I euthanize fish if they are suffering... or if there is low quality of life due to the problem. You and your wife have to decide if there is any quality of life, as it is. Then do what seems best.

Just to add to what Tolak said, if this fish survives it should never be allowed to breed as it could pass on its defective genes to its offspring.

Thanks for the replies. So what I"m taking from this is that the fish will probably die but not 100% for sure. I figured the fish is probably suffering and we shouldn't let that continue. On the other hand, if it continues to eat, how uncomfortable can it be? My wife believes that it should be given a chance so I'm thinking we'll just wait and see what happens. I don't have the room to set up another tank with a bare glass bottom though.

bushka

If you are looking for someone to back you up on culling the fish, I would if it were in my tank.

nosoup4you said:

If you are looking for someone to back you up on culling the fish, I would if it were in my tank.

Click to expand...

I'll second that.

Just show the wife this thread, and I am sure she will understand.

D.

Hi

I am fairly new to fishkeeping and have never euthanized a fish and the same thoughts would go through my head as your wifes but in all honesty I would probably euthanize sooner rather than later. I'd also use the icy water technique. It sounds like the quickest, most painless way to me. I wouldn't be able to watch him lying on the bottom like that.

Cindy

i would definatly euthanize the little fellow , if he cant compete for food properly and is not growing then he will slowly starve to death to , you have done all you can for this little guy and before he starts to suffer more i would euthanise the little guy so he doesn't have to suffer any longer

ccskitten said:

Hi

I am fairly new to fishkeeping and have never euthanized a fish and the same thoughts would go through my head as your wifes but in all honesty I would probably euthanize sooner rather than later. I'd also use the icy water technique. It sounds like the quickest, most painless way to me. I wouldn't be able to watch him lying on the bottom like that.

Cindy

Click to expand...

Euthanizing is a very controversial subject, and many people believe the icy water technique to actually be quite stressful for the fish. Personally, I have only ever had to euthanize one fish, and I used the sudden shock technique. I got a sheet of kitchen roll, my bread board, and sharp knife. I netted the fish, and as quickly as possible, to prevent stress, moved it from the net, onto the roll, and then with the sharp knife, cut the head off. There was still movement in the body, but that was nerves. To prevent hypoxia, I stabbed the brain.

There was a thread somewhere about euthanasia, however, I cant find it at the moment, so I will have a root around.

D.

[ This is about betta euthanasia, but it follows the same principals.]

hubby used iced water for my guppy yesterday and it was quite quick the water had icy bits floating in it when he put her into it and she didnt last long at all , there was no thrashing or anything

i have also used clove oil in the past which also is very good for euthanising fish - it takes longer than the frozen water one but its meant to knock the fish out so they dont know anything

taken from http/homepage.ntlworld.com/faustus/nicol.../euthanasia.htm

there are other method on there but thses are amoung the most humane

Temperature shock method (freezing)

This method utilises the coldest water you can find - a bowl of water that has been placed in the freezer long enough for the surface to freeze is good. The surface ice is broken and the bowl taken to the dying fish.

The fish is then captured and dropped into the freezing water. The difference between the temperature of the tank and the freezing water causes an instant fatal shock to the fish nervous system stopping all organ functions instantaneously - anyone who has found themselves suddenly in water that is much colder than your body temperature will know the feeling when you initially can't breathe (people have died of heart failure under similar circumstances), it is like that but much more severe and sudden.

A variation on this is freezing alcohol (pure or vodka)

Stress is caused in the handling of the fish, but in most of the methods the fish must be handled - however this handling is brief.

Recommended for: tropical fish

Not recommended for: coldwater fish

Humane rating: 100%

Temperature shock method (boiling)

Works in the same way as the above temperature shock method, but involves dropping the fish into boiling water.

The main problem with this is not the effect on the fish, but rather our perception of it. Boiling something is usually for food, and things that are boiled are usually dead (lobster being the exception and falls under this category).

However this method is completely acceptable and humane for coldwater fish.

Recommended for: coldwater fish

Not recommended for: tropical fish

Humane rating: 100%

Can I just add for anyone reading this that the freezing method is only to be used on smaller fish such as guppies, platys etc.

Declan - I would definately not be brave enough to cut off a fish head, I couldn't even do that to food!! How much of a girl am I???!!!!!

ccskitten said:

Can I just add for anyone reading this that the freezing method is only to be used on smaller fish such as guppies, platys etc.

Declan - I would definately not be brave enough to cut off a fish head, I couldn't even do that to food!! How much of a girl am I???!!!!!

Click to expand...

I wouldnt like to comment, personally, but a lot of euthanasia is what you are comfortable with, and causes least stress to the fish, personally, I am a very hands on person, and I was doing biology at the time, so once I was sure it was dead, and felt no more pain, I 'investigated' the fish, which happened to be a neon, so it was difficult to say the least..

I think we are going off topic here also, bushka has asked for help, and that is what we should give her, IMHO he should put it out of its misery, but like I say, thats only my opinion.

D.