1st Fish (betta) In New Tank With Returning Ich - Help!

I have a custom tank built into an old iMac which after decor holds just over 3 gallons of water. I prepped the tank and treated the water and ran with the aerator/charcoal filter in place for 1 week before adding a new Betta from the pet store. All readings from the 6 in 1 test strips were in order. I picked the most active looking specimen hoping to give him a proper home in my bigger tank. He was no stranger and ate his pellet food and swan every inch of the tank. Noticed the possible signs of Ich one night and by the next morning he was covered - most prominently on his fins. How could this be in 5 days and I thought I was doing everything right?

That evening I treated the tank with CopperSafe in correct proportions for the tank. Within 2 days the spots were gone but I knew I was not out of the woods yet. My little buddy started to act a little more lifeless. Hanging at the bottom, wedging himself in a plastic plant and even doing a faceplant in the gravel sticking his tail up like a tulip. Then he'd swim about like normal and had no change in appetite. As I read on I was convincing myself he was getting settled in and this is how he may act as he gets comfortable.

This week I saw the spots return, slight one day and no mistaking the next. I ran out to get a copper test kit so I don't poison him by blindly adding more Coppersafe w/o checking the levels. It was running through my mind that my filter may have made the treatment ineffective although the package said it wouldn't impact unless the filter was younger than 6 days old.

Today I find him on the bottom wedged in a plastic plant immobile yet still breathing. He didn't move at all not even for food. The copper level is a 2ppm which I believe should be between 1 and 1.4ppm for safe treatment. I've been topping off the water level but have been reluctant to do a water change while the Ich treatment is taking place. I'm finding higher ammonia and nitrate levels so I immediately removed 20% of the water and replaced it with treated water (no copper) I had prepped at room temperature and have another 2 gallons treated and being tempered.

My thought is to get my buddy out of the tank and into one of those silly little containers which would address the water quality issues. I can then empty, clean and prep the tank again and add a heater but he is not looking good and I don't want to lose him w/o a fight.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

do you have a heater in the tank? and what temp is the water in the tank? bettas do best at the higher end of the 70's but can cope with much higher temps,

are you still running charcoal in the filter? charcoal removes most medications form the water (not sure how it would affect the properties of coppersafe, having never used it)

what readings are you getting for ammonia and nitrite? (actual readings please, don't just say high or low etc) also bear in mind that test strips are notoriously unreliable. liquid test kits are FAR more accurate.

salt is a good treatment against ich, and also slightly detoxifies ammonia and nitrite (so i've been told) DO NOT use table salt. aquarium salt or pure rock/sea salt with no additives (usually coarse type is safest) dissolve fully in dechlorinated water before adding to the tank, solid salt can burn your fish. approx 1/2 to 1 tsp per gallon. bettas cope well with a little salt in the water, and many keepers use it full time, not just when their fish are sick.

could be worth removing and thoroughly cleaning all gravel as even just doing a gravel vac can help remove lots of ich eggs.

you may already know this, but just in case you don't: ich has a 3 stage lifecycle.

Stage 1, eggs
Stage 2, free swimming
Stage 3, attached to host

medications only effect the ich in stage 2 of its lifecycle.
the ich lifecycle is speeded up at higher temps (good if you are treating effectively, bad if you are not treating)

hope that helps a bit.

P.S got any pics of your tank? sounds very cool.

the thing i would do is stop using the coppersafe, as you are fully aware the wrong dosage even slightly can cause many probs and can be fatal, i would remove him from the tank completely and jar him, place him in a warm place to keep him warm. Coppersafe is ok and recommended by many hobbiests but if there happens to be a sudden slight change in the pH this can be extremely fatal and if the fish is lucky it will causes just problems.

im not saying that the coppersafe is the cause, i would treat him with something like protozin [URL="http/www.waterlife.co.uk/waterlife/protozin.htm"]http/www.waterlife.co.uk/waterlife/protozin.htm[/URL] instead, i would also gut the tank and start again, this will rid it of the copper and then things should be fine after that. good luck. Oh also when treating for white spot the key is to increase the temp to speed up the lifespan of the ich to help get rid of it.

I'm gong back to my office to check on him and will bring back the actual readings. I'm keeping them in a log. I've used strips for the basics but will change on your advice. The copper test was a liquid one. Here's a pic of the tank.

No heater yet in the tank. I understand the parasites like 76-78F and you need to get the tank up to 82-84F to kill them. Is it safe to keep the tank temp that high or is it best to do so for treating then back it down?

Should I attempt to treat him in the small container with aquarium salt in proper proportions?

bobscottonline said:

No heater yet in the tank. I understand the parasites like 76-78F and you need to get the tank up to 82-84F to kill them. Is it safe to keep the tank temp that high or is it best to do so for treating then back it down?

Should I attempt to treat him in the small container with aquarium salt in proper proportions?

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either way will help big time....... they can take a temp of up to 32 degrees celcius for short period of times so do not worry.

I love the screen saver ......thats one cool tank

R.I.P - unfortunately my little buddy didn't make it.

Hind sight being 20/20 I should have not panicked and added the CopperSafe until after I did a water check and partial replacement. He'd only been in the tank a week but by the end of the second week my readings were as follows (note with CopperSafe added the 2nd week):
ammonia 0.5, nitrate 20, nitrite 5, hardness 150 (no change), chlorine 0 (no change), alkalinity 120 and pH 7.8

I'm disappointed my efforts were not successful since the consequence was great. I know there is some tool out there who's keeping his fish in shot glass and it is surviving w/o a care and I may have literally cooked my friend in his own crap because I was doing the "right thing" with the chemical treatment and waiting out the parasite life cycle. UGH!

Much thanks to ibbledibble and modaz for your fast responses. You have a great community and look forward to participating more in the future. There's another little buddy out there needing rescue from the pet shop.

Next tank prep will include 1/2-1 tsp of aquarium salt per gallon and 80F heater setting to try and keep that Ich away. Certainly water changes (25%) a week will have to be a must!

Thanks again!

i know this is a dumb question, but there was air space at the top of the tank, right? or ist he top of the tank just hiding it? i heard of a new betta keeper who filled the tank all the way up to the top, and it had no to air to breath then it soccfuated..?

Sorry to hear that, Bob. When you get your next betta, I would suggest you buy some of the live bacteria that is sold in the States to immediately start up the bacteria culture in the filter. At least that way, there should be no problems due to an uncycled tank. I believe that you add the bacteria and then immediately the fish. Wish we could get it over here in the UK, it would make things much easier!
And definitely go for a heater, I didn't immediately get a heater for one of my bettas, but when he got one he bacame much more active.
Let us know how you get on

Also, if you know anybody who has a healthy and fully cycled tank, you could perhaps ask them if they would give you some used media or sponge ect from their filter to add live bacteria and start your cycle quickly? I think there is also a place on here where you can ask people to donate media

When you say you treated the water before adding the betta...what exactly did you treat it with? All you need is Dechlorinator, you don't need any salt before adding a new fish. Just put your filter in a tub with enough tankwater to cover it and keep the media wet, change all of the water in the tank and give it a good clean ( no detergents just hot water and a bit of salt, then rinse again with more hot water ) . Then refill the tank with dechlorinated water, decor ect, and put your filter back in. Since most of the bacteria live in your filter you should have no trouble .

I must say it's a great way to recycle an old monitor, very clever. Don't forget to leave a gap between the top/lid and the water's surface to allow oxygen exchange. And the betta will also be able to take air from there since they are anabantoids.

Can I ask, how do you access everything in there? Does the top have a flap or something ?

azulfire24 said:

i know this is a dumb question, but there was air space at the top of the tank, right? or ist he top of the tank just hiding it? i heard of a new betta keeper who filled the tank all the way up to the top, and it had no to air to breath then it soccfuated..?

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Yes there is a air space at the top on the tank. While the screen in from appears "full" there actually is the same air gap as a tank with a hood on it.

Honeythorn said:

Also, if you know anybody who has a healthy and fully cycled tank, you could perhaps ask them if they would give you some used media or sponge ect from their filter to add live bacteria and start your cycle quickly? I think there is also a place on here where you can ask people to donate media

When you say you treated the water before adding the betta...what exactly did you treat it with? All you need is Dechlorinator, you don't need any salt before adding a new fish. Just put your filter in a tub with enough tankwater to cover it and keep the media wet, change all of the water in the tank and give it a good clean ( no detergents just hot water and a bit of salt, then rinse again with more hot water ) . Then refill the tank with dechlorinated water, decor ect, and put your filter back in. Since most of the bacteria live in your filter you should have no trouble .

I must say it's a great way to recycle an old monitor, very clever. Don't forget to leave a gap between the top/lid and the water's surface to allow oxygen exchange. And the betta will also be able to take air from there since they are anabantoids.

Can I ask, how do you access everything in there? Does the top have a flap or something ?

Click to expand...

To start it was just a de-chlorinating water conditioner for Bettas. I'll check into the media sharing bit - I only have a small filter though and it uses a bio bag set up. Some filtering fabric surrounding activated charcoal if that makes a difference.

The striped bezel on the front of the tank hinges a bit - enough to get food in and funnel some fresh water. Pulling it back and up removes it. The indigo colored casing lifts off to expose the inside and access the top of the tank. I have a little obstruction as there is a sub-frame behind the front bezel that covers part of the tank top but once set up it isn't much of an issue. The guy that made the iMacquarium did a fabulous job and attention to detail was phenomenal. You can see more pics at his site

jakeharms.com


Wasn't going to pimp his site but there's enough buzz and he does great work - careful to recycle all he guts out of the thing as well.