Fin Rot?

Three of my 9 neons have shredded looking tails. I don't see any redness, cotton-looking fluff, or other signs of disease. 2 of the harlequin rasboras have shredded tails, but both have white cottony looking stuff on the base of the tail - where it meets the body - and their tails are quite shredded.

My LFS guy thought that with the water stats (pH 8, NO2 below 0.3 ppm and NO3 at/below 0 ppm) that it was unlikely that they had fin rot and that one of the other fish was biting or niping at the tetras - this was before the rasboras went downhill fast.

I isolated the tetras (just in a breeding/net bin) and added Pimafix (antifungal) at his suggestion, but after a week the tetras fins were no better and I noticed that 2 of the rasboras were having fin problems too.

I'm still treating with Pimafix (no change) and just did a dipped the 2 rasboras in a salt dip for 5 minutes. They're now in the net/breeding pen and the bottom is littered with fin parts - after the dip - while that was happening they were shimmying around like they were trying to shake stuff off their tails.

Is this fin rot? What should I do? Could the high pH be the problem? The water quality is consistently quite good and I can't figure out why I'd get a disease associated with stress or poor water quality.

I've not lost any fish for at least 6 months (a neon tetra to NTD and 2 of the corys for reasons unknown).

I have a few live plants, do 25% water changes weekly, the pH is a concern to me (8.0), feed small amounts 2x day and also have black skirt tetras (3) a total of 5 rasboras, one 3-line cory, and 2 small plecos. The tank is 30 gallons. I'm having a hard time eradicating the little green dot algae, and battle a few snails that hitched rides on my plants, but all else is fine.

Please advise.

If the harlequins how stringy bits on the fins you have columnaris, also any sign of laboured breathing flicking and rubbing against objects, though did they shake after the salt bath.

Not the writer of this information below.
Columnaris (a.k.a. Mouth Fungus)



Symptoms:

An infected fish will have off-white to gray cotton-like patches on the head, fins, gills, body and particularly the mouth. In time, these areas will develop into open sores. Gill swelling may occur, gill filaments may stick together and excessive mucus may develop in the gill area. Rapid breathing can be seen. Fins may deteriorate to the point of leaving the fin rays bare. Muscles may be inflamed and capillaries may rupture. Fish, particularly livebearers, may exhibit "shimmying". Infection may be acute (killing an infected fish within hours), or chronic (lingering for several days before eventually killing the fish). As with most diseases, not all symptoms need be present.



Cause:

The bacterium Flexibacter columnaris.



Treatment:

Ensure that your water conditions (e.g., Ammonia, Nitrite, pH, Nitrate levels, and water temp.) are within their proper ranges. If not, perform a water change and/or treat the water accordingly. Recommended medications include: Furanace, Fungus Eliminator, Fungus Cure, Furacyn, Furan-2, Triple Sulfa, E.M. Tablets, Tetracycline, or Potassium Permanganate. Medicated foods are also recommended. Columnaris can be highly infectious and may quickly kill all aquarium inhabitants; therefore, early treatment is essential. All fish, including those not yet showing visible symptoms, as well as the aquarium they inhabit should be treated.

I don't see any stringy bits. They haven't been rubbing on anything, breathing is fine and the shimmying stopped as soon as I stopped the salt bath. I included a pic, but I don't know if you can see anything - not the best quality. The tail of the fish is split/completely forked to the body - there isn't an visible fin inbetween the two orange areas. You can also see that the other fish - only the tail - what's left of it - is now missing most of its tail fin. Both still have a good appetite and are swimming as normally as they can in the confined area.

I don't think its columnaris. The only symptoms I'm seeing are the shredded tail and what looks like a white patch right where the tail meets the body - seen on the pic below the orange area on the tail and the black on the body. The white areas may be more of a pale spot than a fuzzy area, now that I can see them better in the breeding pen.

If any of the fish are being nipped, its started recently and I haven't added any fish or seen any fish nip any other fish.
Treatment ideas?

(Any suggestions on how to get decent quality close ups with a digital camera would be appreciated in addition to fish advice.)

rasboras have shredded tails, but both have white cottony looking stuff on the base of the tail - where it meets the body - and their tails are quite shredded.
There are your words and it sounds like columnaris you will need a bacterial med, but i doubt it will help as they sound bad.

Dang it. The rasboras are still doing okay, but tails are deteriorating really fast. I'll try treating with antibiotics for columnaris, but I still need to find out what caused the initial stress. If the water quality was poor, I'd understand why they got sick, but the ammonia reading is always 0, the nitrates/nitrites always at the lowest possible reading (0.3 ppm?). Would high pH stress out the neons and rasboras? It's 8.0.

Does columnaris usually act so fast? I first noticed the shredding on the neons about 2 weeks ago and the rasboras one week ago and now one of the rasboras has only the part of a tail left and the other is deteriorating rapidly.

Thanks for all your help/advice. I hate losing my little fishy friends especially if it's my fault for doing something wrong.

toadie

The neon that die of neon tetra desease did it die in the tank, i have tetra's but never had problems like finrot with them,but they can get finrot like that with columnaris as bacterial finrot, they are both bacterial.

The neon that die of neon tetra desease did it die in the tank, i have tetra's but never had problems like finrot with them,but they can get finrot like that with columnaris as bacterial finrot, they are both bacterial.
Also can you list all your fish in the tank.

No, the neon was put peacefully to sleep, but the two cories died in the tank - I have no clue as to why -neither seemed sick. I just checked the tank in the am on two separate mornings about 3 weeks apart and each was dead - the first had been nibbled on.

Other tank mates:
2 small plecos - leopard, I think - the ones that won't grow to be more than 3 inches or so in length
9 neons
5 rasboras
3 black skirt tetras that chase each other, but never any of the others - I've watched with lights on, lights off, sitting far away. The neons chase each other and the black skirts chase each other, but no one seems to ever nip a different species - except maybe the plecos, but I don't see any biting or agression unless the other fish get too close - then the plecos lunge at the other fish. I don't think they are biting, though. Maybe. Not sure - it's hard to tell if they make contact unless I'm close to the tank and then they don't do it.
1 3-line cory.

Tank is 30 gallons

I'm putting the 2 sick rasboras to sleep tonight. They are now shimmying and are losing their tails really fast. Have to wait for my husband to get home - I can't take doing it myself.

But if it is Columnaris, then its going to be in the water still, so you still may have to treat it.

I'm sorry for your loss.

This definately sounds bacterial, i totally agree with everything wilder has posted for you. Are you treating with an antibiotic? If not, definately begin with either maracyn 1 AND 2, or tetracycline. I would recomend treating the entier tank because whatever you have seems to be contagious.

love_fish said:

But if it is Columnaris, then its going to be in the water still, so you still may have to treat it.

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which will kill the bacteria in my filter, right? The filter is a biowheel. ARGHH. If the treatment for colunmaris will kill the good bacteria, what do I do so I don't start having ammonia and nitrate/ites issues?

Tetracycline can kill the bacteria, Maracyn 1 and 2 are supposed to be safe for the filter. I have only treated an entire tank once with maracyn and maracyn 2, and i think my bio was fine. (actually, now i'm more certain that the bio was fine, but it never hurts to keep an eye on things)

tttnjfttt said:

Tetracycline can kill the bacteria, Maracyn 1 and 2 are supposed to be safe for the filter. I have only treated an entire tank once with maracyn and maracyn 2, and i think my bio was fine. (actually, now i'm more certain that the bio was fine, but it never hurts to keep an eye on things)

Click to expand...

Thanks. I can just see this turning into a total disaster for the tank. Any idea as to the cause of the infection? I'm more of a treat the cause than a react to the symptoms kind of person and I don't want to find myself in a similar situation a few months down the road.

I appreciate everyone's help. I feel really bad for my fish. I always thought they'd be easier than my cat. Boy, was I wrong. Still love them, though.

I used maracyn and had a very small mini cycle that lasted only a day. But it did clear up my columnaris without any deaths.

Your water stats look good, so its not coming from that. Sometimes frozen food can cause illness, but i'm pretty sure thats more parasites than bacterial. New fish can also come in already sick. Other times, fish just get sick for no aparent reason. For example, I have a betta who i have had for over a year suddenly come down with gill flukes. His water is fine, and he is alone in his 10 gal tank. No reason, but after treatment, he has gone from almost dead to being active again.

I've just added the second dose of Maracyn and Maracyn 2 to the tank. Everyone looks healthy with the exception of the neons that had shredded looking tails before the rasboras got sick - they don't look worse, but obviously not enough time has passed for the tails to mend. I understand the need to treat the water, and complete the treatment...

Here's my question. Did the tails get nipped by another fish and this made the fish susceptible to bacterial infection OR did a bacterial infection destroy the tails without the tails ever being bitten? Which is the most likely scenario?

If I suddenly have a biter in a tank that's been together for about a year, there must be something off or not quite right with my tank. My tap water pH is just above 7. The tank sometimes creeps up to 8, but is most often closer to 7.7. or 7.8. After a water change the pH is usually down to 7.5. Could these differences be causing enough stress to bring about biting? illness? I know it's better to keep the pH very stable, but how do I do that when the tap is 7 and the aquarium water is more alkaline? (I think the gravel is leaching carbonate and interferring with the pH so I guess I need to change the gravel, but not until I get everybody nursed back to good health)

Any ideas?

Thanks!