Just Started My First Salt Water Tank! My Journal

Were only telling u that ur hurting the fish, there swimming in there own waste and theres nothing to help control the waste yet. Thats all dont feel like where picking on you. There are just better ways people use to cycle there tanks. Your fish might live but there not very happy

Your fish are producing waste and the uneaten food that your fish are missing is breaking down in your tank, so therefore there will be a build up of Proteins & a host of other compunds (Amino acids, Albumin, Carbohydrates etc.) that cannot be tested for, So imo I would turn it on


What are you using for your Bio Filtration at the moment ??

mikersx02 said:

Will I lose fish? Most likely.

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I think that taking actions where you are expecting to lose a fish just because it is cheap is a horrific way to go about the hobby. Who cares if it is a 3.99 fish or a 399.99 fish, you should not put it through unecessary harm because you have failed to take the advice that others have attempted to give you, and gone with the obviously stupid advice your LFS has. Your best bet would have been to start off with some live-rock from your dad's mature tank.
All i can hope is that your levels stay low and that the fish aren't harmed but please remember that it is unfair to treat a fish as a "tool".

Ben

bunjiweb said:

mikersx02 said:

Will I lose fish? Most likely.

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I think that taking actions where you are expecting to lose a fish just because it is cheap is a horrific way to go about the hobby. Who cares if it is a 3.99 fish or a 399.99 fish, you should not put it through unecessary harm because you have failed to take the advice that others have attempted to give you, and gone with the obviously stupid advice your LFS has. Your best bet would have been to start off with some live-rock from your dad's mature tank.
All i can hope is that your levels stay low and that the fish aren't harmed but please remember that it is unfair to treat a fish as a "tool".

Ben

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I didnt mean to sound like I dont care about the fish- I do- trust me. I have watched them in the tank more then I have watched TV the past 2 nights.

The 3.99 comment did sound bad, but I have no intentions of killing the fish or harming them. The amonia is still reasonable. Its less then 1ppm but between .5 ppm.

I doubt ANYONE has put together a marine tank and NOT lost a fish- very rare if it does happen. Fish can be in perfect water and still die because of the way they are caught/transported/bagged.

I picked damsels because they are supposed to be really tollerant to poor water conditions. I cant feed bacteria without having something decaying in the tank. Fish poop is a good way to do this. I could have put a rock in there first, yes, but to me, a rock isnt much fun to look at. My fish are still alive, they are still eating, they are still alert- they arent breathing fast... I am sure that one of them is going to die, but he would have died in any tank I believe. (had some damage to his lips) Hopefully he makes it, but I am not expecting him to.

Chac said:

Your fish are producing waste and the uneaten food that your fish are missing is breaking down in your tank, so therefore there will be a build up of Proteins & a host of other compunds (Amino acids, Albumin, Carbohydrates etc.) that cannot be tested for, So imo I would turn it on


What are you using for your Bio Filtration at the moment ??

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I have a eheim ecco 2236 loaded with bio media, a seaclone 100 skimmer, and a penquin 400 HOB filter running. the water is very very clear and lots of current in the tank.

I have registered 1ppm of amonia or less, each day I have tested the water.

PH is stable at 8.2

Temp is 76-78 (im about to go get a better heater, this one cant decide on a temp)

The amonia alert detector is inbetween alert and safe right now. Im keeping a close eye on the conditions in my tank.


I test every day after work, and feed in the mornings and watch them while I eat breakfast.



I do have a serious question- with my injured damsel- is it better to leave him in the tank- even if his conditions get worse? Right now hes doing ok, still eating- but I dont want him to suffer more then he has to.

About the only thing one can do if amonia gets really really bad is to do a 20-30% water change right?

Ammonia is highly toxic even at the smallest of levels, what you are seeing is your tank go throught a cycle

I wouldnt get rid of the damsel yet as he may make it, you never know.

Also remember that damsels (also know as Devil Fish) are hugely terretorial & will attack anything you later add to the tank

Chac said:

Ammonia is highly toxic even at the smallest of levels, what you are seeing is your tank go throught a cycle

I wouldnt get rid of the damsel yet as he may make it, you never know.

Also remember that damsels (also know as Devil Fish) are hugely terretorial & will attack anything you later add to the tank

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That damsel isnt getting any better yet. He still has color, but isnt swimming any pattern and is just kinda hovering there trying to stay out of everyones way.

I fed them this morning (1/3 brick of frozen brine shrimp) he did not eat, but the rest did. I may have to cut down to 1/4 brick as they didnt eat all of it this morning.

Amonia block is sitll floating between safe and alert- Amonia must have to be REALLY hight for that thing to go to "toxic"

Dont all tanks have to go "toxic" before a true cycle can begin?

Skimmer still hasnt caught much more then condensation. I read in the manual that it may take 3-15 days before its broken in and begins to trap things.

whole tank

Some fish

The sick fish... look at the yellow tail with the white lips. He looks to be doing a little better this afternoon. Any ideas if he will make it or not?

Amonia and temp


I did a PH, amonia, nitrite and nitrate test mid afternoon...

Ph is 8.2
amonia still at 1.0 ppm up a little from a few days ago (.5 previous)
Nitrite- at the lowest reading besides none (.1)
nitrate- 3ppm (I guess that means bacteria is starting to do its thing.??)

Well you don't appear to have any LIVE rock in there at all, yours looks completely dead. You will not run a successful reef tank without good quality cured liverock. I am unsure where you live so it is hard to advise you on where to get it. Although you can buy good quality rock online or from mail-order quite easily these days.

I suggest you buy at least 5KG to help the tank cycle. Your only problem is that if you get die-off when the fish are in there then you will get an ammonia spike which may kill the fish. So the first thing you want to do is take the fish BACK to the shop! Oh, and you do realise that damsels are actually one of the WORST fish you can start a marine tank with, not because they aren't hardy, the opposite! They can be terrorizing little thugs that will bully any new fish that enters their terratory, especially in a small tank. If you wanted damsels you should have added them last. A goby or possibly a clownfish is usually a much better fish to start off with.

Please understand that with a marine tank you either do things in a way that is obviously beneficial to your livestock, or otherwise you set yourself on the path to serious tank problems.

Ben

Unless you want a tank full of damsels you may as well take them out. Once you put all the rock in the tank, you will never get those little buggers out of there.

bunjiweb said:

Well you don't appear to have any LIVE rock in there at all, yours looks completely dead. You will not run a successful reef tank without good quality cured liverock. I am unsure where you live so it is hard to advise you on where to get it. Although you can buy good quality rock online or from mail-order quite easily these days.

I suggest you buy at least 5KG to help the tank cycle. Your only problem is that if you get die-off when the fish are in there then you will get an ammonia spike which may kill the fish. So the first thing you want to do is take the fish BACK to the shop! Oh, and you do realise that damsels are actually one of the WORST fish you can start a marine tank with, not because they aren't hardy, the opposite! They can be terrorizing little thugs that will bully any new fish that enters their terratory, especially in a small tank. If you wanted damsels you should have added them last. A goby or possibly a clownfish is usually a much better fish to start off with.

Please understand that with a marine tank you either do things in a way that is obviously beneficial to your livestock, or otherwise you set yourself on the path to serious tank problems.

Ben

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Number one- it will be a super long time before I go reef. At most- it will be a fowlr tank... dont even know if I will go live rock(edit, meant to say Reef,,,of course live rock will be in any tank).


My live rock is DEAD? Really? Damn- the store sold me dead rock? Ohh my god! (sarcasm)

Live rock will be there soon enough- Maybe this weekend or next-

Damsels are not my end game with this tank- once the tank cycles- then I will remove the damsels and get more exotic fish- Read any books on cycling lately? What gets put in the tank doensst have to be in there forever- I can take them back to the pet store and let them sell them to another hobbiest,

The sick yellow tale finaly went to the big fish bowl in the sky.

I did a water test this morning to make sure nothing went really out of wack- nothign notable. PH- amonia, nitrites and nitrates were all the same from yesterday.

I had turned off the protein skimmer yesterday due to there being some thought that the skimmer would take more of the bad stuff (food) out of the water that the bacteria would need to eat to grow faster.

I, however, turned it back on today to remove any bad stuff the dead fish may have put into the water.

Should I turn it back off later today? Or just keep it running through the entire cycling process?

Since you don't seem to want to take any of the advise given to you I am wondering why you are still here asking questions? Are you going to listen or just ignore the advise again because you feel you know more than any one else on this site?

I wasn't even going to post any advise but since another member new to SW may come and read this thread, you should leave the skimmer on from now until it dies or you tear your tank down. Not only is it probably the only thing saving your fish right now from the cycle, it also is probably your main airation in the tank. Both the fish and the bacteria need oxygen to live and it is providing it to both. It is hard to keep oxygen difused into salt water so anything that adds O2 is a good thing.

Now if you want to ignore that advise go right ahead.

You now seem to be looking forward to stocking your tank.

'Damsels are not my end game with this tank- once the tank cycles- then I will remove the damsels and get more exotic fish'.

IMO only do this when ammonia and nitrite readings are 0.
The fish you choose to keep should be researched before you think of making a purchase.
e.g. The tank size a fish needs.
Any special feeding requirements.
The order in which to introduce the fish.
Whether the fish are compatible.

I hope you will avoid stocking your tank too quickly. I would say 1 a month.

Personally I don't like filter media for biological filtration. It is an old method, that has been overtaken by
the Berlin method. Live rock is natures way.

If you have a large enough tank, with the right amount of live rock and a good skimmer working in harmony with a diverse clean up crew, your tank will be more natural and successful.

You have in my opinion started off on the wrong foot. It may have been bad information or a limited budget that led you down the path you are treading, but you do have a problem with taking advice. Since the start of this thread you have continually carried on in your own way and disregarded advice or opinions posted.
I do not expect you to pay any attention to my stocking advice, but when you carry on with the same level of care you have shown your damsels on more EXOTIC FISH the hobby may become disheartening for you.

tigerknife said:

You now seem to be looking forward to stocking your tank.

'Damsels are not my end game with this tank- once the tank cycles- then I will remove the damsels and get more exotic fish'.

IMO only do this when ammonia and nitrite readings are 0.
The fish you choose to keep should be researched before you think of making a purchase.
e.g. The tank size a fish needs.
Any special feeding requirements.
The order in which to introduce the fish.
Whether the fish are compatible.

I hope you will avoid stocking your tank too quickly. I would say 1 a month.

Personally I don't like filter media for biological filtration. It is an old method, that has been overtaken by
the Berlin method. Live rock is natures way.

If you have a large enough tank, with the right amount of live rock and a good skimmer working in harmony with a diverse clean up crew, your tank will be more natural and successful.

You have in my opinion started off on the wrong foot. It may have been bad information or a limited budget that led you down the path you are treading, but you do have a problem with taking advice. Since the start of this thread you have continually carried on in your own way and disregarded advice or opinions posted.
I do not expect you to pay any attention to my stocking advice, but when you carry on with the same level of care you have shown your damsels on more EXOTIC FISH the hobby may become disheartening for you.

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You guys are a different breed of people I swear.

There is more then one way to start a salt water tank. How to cycle a tank is NOT set in stone.

I have never claimed to know everything, nor will I try or act like it.

I have not ignored anyones advice. I take each piece of advice and research it. In this case, just as many people cycle a tank with hardy fish as there are with those that cycle a tank with "pet rocks."

I am NOT starting a reef tank right now. I dont want to get into corals- Im sure they are pretty cool to look at, but thats something that experts have a hard time keeping alive. I will wait until I can easily balance a tank with fish and live rock before I attempt coral (year or two)

By exotic fish- I am not stating that I am going to put super expensive hard to find fish in there... ANYTHING is more exotic then a damsel. Damsels are a newbie fish. They are forgiving to a certain extent. Its not as easy to kill a damsel as it is an angel fish or tang.

You guys are soo intent on doing this BERLIN method of starting a tank- that you believe its the only way to start a tank- Its not.

Besides putting in fish sooner then you would have- how have I ignored or disregaurded anyones advice? Im not going to add any more fish until the tank has stabalized- so Im not even thinking about stocking options yet because that time is a month or two out. But for right now, I get to watch my damsels swimming around and doing what fish do- rather then watching a pet rock sitting in the bottom of my tank for a month while the tank cycles. You have your preferences, I have mine. Both are perfectly viable ways of starting a tank.

I respect others advice- so please dont think I am unappreciative. I truely am. Just because I didnt use the "Berlin" way, doesnt mean I am doing it the wrong way.

You would not have had to look at your pet rock for months on end, if you had started the tank with 1 pound of live rock per gallon (fully cured of course). You would have experienced no cycle and you could have started stocking within the first 24 hours!