Droopy and sad looking

Bishyfishy

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Hi folks,

Looking for some fishy advice. We have had our Betta for about 6 weeks, heā€™s living in a 55l tank with a filter, heater, live plants and a few other fish (1 mystery snail, 1 Juli corydora, 5 bundles guppies and some pest snails). Everyone was living in harmony and still is, but my Betta has become rather droopy and lethargic. He still sits up near the top of the tank, but he is eating a lot less. Any advice to help him out? Is he sick? Is he stressed?

Things that have happened in the last week:
- water top up
- I trimmed the plants (he did like to sit in them but they had gone crazy)
 

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Welcome to TFF,

After settling in, many bettas becomes more relax and will start to play with his food. At first I thought I had a problem too. But it seems that Mr. understands that letting his pellets soak a little and playing with them a while, they are easier to swallow and digest.

The first primordial thing you need to do, is maintain optimal water quality. ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH. Sudden changes in water quality can stress your Betta and lead to health problems. Aim for ammonia and nitrite levels at 0 ppm, nitrates below 20 ppm, and as much as possible, soft water with a pH between 6.5 and 7.5

Ensure the water temperature is within the ideal range for Bettas, which is 78-82Ā°F (25.5-27.8Ā°C). Lower temperatures are really bad for them and will result in a reduced metabolism process, leading to decreased activities, lower appetite and weakened immune system.

Are you sure that your guppies are not bothering him ? Even if no aggression occurs, The constant nervous come and go of some tank mates are stressing to them. While you can keep them together, I Think that both species are not really compatible starting with the water parameters they require to thrive.

Hiding places... You said you removed some plants. While you can prune your plants it is not advised to do it in a manner that will change too much the environment and remove his favourite hiding spots... Imagine your beautiful planted house that you start to love. Get teared apart and transformed by someone that is not even living there...

Look closely for any kind of physical anomalies and behaviour, swimming patterns, difficulties to stay afloat... Is he completely refusing food ?

If you can post better pics of the betta and a general view of your tank, It could help you get more suggestions.
 
Welcome to TFF,

After settling in, many bettas becomes more relax and will start to play with his food. At first I thought I had a problem too. But it seems that Mr. understands that letting his pellets soak a little and playing with them a while, they are easier to swallow and digest.

The first primordial thing you need to do, is maintain optimal water quality. ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH. Sudden changes in water quality can stress your Betta and lead to health problems. Aim for ammonia and nitrite levels at 0 ppm, nitrates below 20 ppm, and as much as possible, soft water with a pH between 6.5 and 7.5

Ensure the water temperature is within the ideal range for Bettas, which is 78-82Ā°F (25.5-27.8Ā°C). Lower temperatures are really bad for them and will result in a reduced metabolism process, leading to decreased activities, lower appetite and weakened immune system.

Are you sure that your guppies are not bothering him ? Even if no aggression occurs, The constant nervous come and go of some tank mates are stressing to them. While you can keep them together, I Think that both species are not really compatible starting with the water parameters they require to thrive.

Hiding places... You said you removed some plants. While you can prune your plants it is not advised to do it in a manner that will change too much the environment and remove his favourite hiding spots... Imagine your beautiful planted house that you start to love. Get teared apart and transformed by someone that is not even living there...

Look closely for any kind of physical anomalies and behaviour, swimming patterns, difficulties to stay afloat... Is he completely refusing food ?

If you can post better pics of the betta and a general view of your tank, It could help you get more suggestions.
Thanks so much for your reply! I hope heā€™s not upset because I cut the plants back, they had taken over the whole tank and you couldnā€™t really see the fish anymore! Iā€™ve turned the temp up a degree (I got the original temp from a website) and I can return the guppies to the aquarium shop (the sales person there said itā€™s a good combo) but they very rarely seem to take any notice of each other and Iā€™ve never seen the betta flare.

I have noticed his colours have changed, heā€™s become less vibrant. Hereā€™s some more photos if it helps.

Heā€™s eating very little now and doesnā€™t swim over to say hi when I look in on him anymore.
 

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Poor little guy, he definitely isn't looking brilliant, and I can see a whiteish patch on one side close to the head in one of the photos that I think might be excess mucus, although I'm not sure - @Colin_T would love to here what you think of this fish?

I can see he's lethargic, somewhat fin clamped and bedraggled, the excess mucus - and the lack of appetite is very concerning. Being able to see his movement as he swims, or when offered food could also give us more insight - is there any chance you could take a short video or two of him, by any chance? It can be really helpful. Unfortunately, the video upload function on the forum doesn't work, but if you upload to youtube then link it here, we can watch it that way. :)


The other thing is to ask for more info, I'm going to copy/paste the template from the emergency section below, if you can copy/paste this template and fill in as much as you can please, it's really helpful for trying to resolve what's causing the problem! Don't worry if you don't know an answer, just fill in as much as you can, and share any other details you can think of, like how long you've had the Endler's and Cory - the more detail we have, the better.:)

Having all the info together like that, plus the photos you've shared and hopefully a video clip or two will help us rule out some things, and hopefully narrow down the cause, or be able to suggest treatment options!


You may cut and paste the template below and submit in your post:

Request Help

Tank size:
tank age:
pH:
ammonia:
nitrite:
nitrate:
kH:
gH:
tank temp:


Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):

Volume and Frequency of water changes:

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:

Tank inhabitants:

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration):

Exposure to chemicals:

Digital photo (include if possible):
 
Thanks so much for your reply! I hope heā€™s not upset because I cut the plants back, they had taken over the whole tank and you couldnā€™t really see the fish anymore!

It's fine to trim the plants back, we have to now and again, and it's great they're growing that fast! But worth leaving at least some large leaved plant stems closer to the surface for a betta, they love to rest on leaves, or artificial decor like betta hammocks since they like to use them to rest on, and they're labyrinth fish so can breathe from the surface, and having some nice dense plants or some broad leaves to lie on while on the bottom, and to rest on near the surface, is good for bettas. Especially ones with long heavy fins, those cause a lot of drag in the water, and they're not super strong swimmers, so they appreciate the comfy resting spots!
Iā€™ve turned the temp up a degree (I got the original temp from a website) and I can return the guppies to the aquarium shop (the sales person there said itā€™s a good combo) but they very rarely seem to take any notice of each other and Iā€™ve never seen the betta flare.

I wouldn't return the Endler's at this point. While bettas are a solitary species and better off alone than in community tanks, do need softer water while Endler's need hard, and long term, that stocking might need reconsidered - it's not the Endler's causing this. Large tailed male guppies especially can sometimes trigger stress and aggression in a much more territorial and aggressive male, but Endler's don't have the giant tails and are much faster, and definitely aren't causing lethargy, excess mucus, and lack of appetite in the betta.

It's much more likely to be water conditions, illness or infection of some kind.

However, if you're willing to return fish, please, please return the juli corydora. Cories are a very social species, need groups of at least six, and need sand, not a gravel substrate. Getting more of them right now when there might be sickness in the tank is a bad idea, and would face the same issues of the gravel substrate, and we really need to find out some more info about your general water parameters, like whether your water is hard or soft, before we can recommend better stocking. But the cory will be lonely and stressed without other cories, so you'd be doing a kindness in returning him, then working with us to learn more about your set up and more compatable stocking, before adding more fish.

Hopefully the betta can recover and pull through! We definitely want to try to help! Sadly as you're learning the hard way, fish store employees often give terrible advice! Especially the big box chain stores. Many of us learned the hard way that they will often sell snake oil products, give inaccurate info that kills fish and puts people off the hobby, or sell sick, unhealthy fish to people who don't know any better yet, and put them off the hobby altogether. Not all store employees of course, not all stores - some are amazing! But when you're new to the hobby, it's easy to trust their advice, then get burned. Always do your own research, and be wary of advice from a store!

Another reason to return the cory while keeping the Endler's is that we don't know yet whether your water is hard or soft. Majority of fish in the hobby, and the betta and Juli cories - need softer water, while Endler's and other livebearers need hard water. If yours turns out to be hard, and the betta passes, you'd be left with a single, stressed and lonely cory on the wrong substrate. :(

So my current suggestion is to fill out as much info as you can, return the cory to the store, and take a water sample with you. Ask them to please test it for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrAtes, and also if they can test the GH and KH for you. Ask them to write down the numbers for these, not just say that they're "fine", we need to know the actual numbers in order to know what's going on in the tank, what kind of water parameters you have, and so whether something in the water is affecting the betta, and which sorts of fish would work best in your water. :)
I have noticed his colours have changed, heā€™s become less vibrant. Hereā€™s some more photos if it helps.

Heā€™s eating very little now and doesnā€™t swim over to say hi when I look in on him anymore.
 
Thank you so much for your considered reply. My betta actually died a few days ago so I havenā€™t been back into this website, but Iā€™ll certainly look into all your suggestions as I want to prevent any further fish deaths. :(
 

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